“Please Government of Ontario, don’t touch our horse racing industry, it’s important for thousands of people. I want there to be lots of good racing when I get older so I can make my family proud”
A colt from the first crop of Marchfield, a double champion stallion, out of Hot Toy, owned by Barb Minshall and foaled at Gardiner Farms
HEIGHTENED UPROAR FROM RACING INDUSTRY AS DRUMMOND REPORT NEARS
this afternoon, the report comes out…
The Toronto Star’s interview with SUE LESLIE, president of the Ontario Horse Racing Industry, laid out the situation plainly.
Should money be taken away from racetracks from the slots revenue program that the TRACKS, HORSEPEOPLE and MUNICIPALITIES put together some 13 years ago, it could spell doom for the smaller tracks around ONtario, including Fort Erie and Ajax.
Who would go the slot if these tracks close? Or, who would go to the malls, stores, restaurants, gas stations? These towns around the tracks would become ghost towns.
The Drummond report comes out later today (afternoon) and the province is on pins and needles with regards to the recommendations where cuts can be made.
Hey, the province is almost bankrupt, cuts need to be made, badly. But horse racing cannot be the place for that.
STORIES ON THIS HUGE ISSUE WITH REGARDS TO HORSE RACING APPEAR IN THE MAJOR PAPERS TODAY:
TORONTO STAR
CUTBACKS THREATEN SMALL TRACKS, HORSE RACING INDUSTRY SAYS.
Smaller horse tracks in the province would be in serious trouble if the provincial government takes slot-machine revenue away from operators, says a spokesperson for the industry.
“Horse racing in a lot of these small communities, such as Dresden, Windsor, London, Fort Erie and Ajax, will be finished,” said Sue Leslie, president of the Ontario Horse Racing Industry Association. “And then how will those townships around these tracks survive if all those workers are gone? Who will be in their restaurants, at the gas stations, in their Wal-Marts?
There was a buzz on the racetrack backstretch this week but it was not from the excitement for the upcoming season. Instead, it was from the bombshell dropped on the industry on Monday after Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan spoke at the Economic Club of Toronto.
Speaking in advance of the cost-cutting report by former TD Bank economist Don Drummond to be released Wednesday, Duncan said one area of review would be the $345 million that horse racing receives annually from slot revenue.
The comments came as a shock to horse racing industry members who were given less than 30 minutes notice of Duncan’s comments regarding the 13-year-old slot-revenue partnership program between the provincial government, the 17 Ontario racetracks and each host municipality.
READ MORE…
http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/1131397–cutbacks-threaten-small-tracks-horse-racing-industry-says
BULLET NEWS NIAGARA – FORT ERIE…
Frustrated Fort Erie mayor and Welland MPP tell Queen’s Park not to play games with race track jobs
FORT ERIE – Ontario’s New Democrats are concerned about comments by Liberal Finance Minister Dwight Duncan Monday suggesting the government is taking aim at the provincial slots at race tracks program as part of its deficit cutting measures.
“The race track business employs something like 60,000 people in Ontario,” said Welland NDP MPP Cindy Forster, speaking on behalf of her party.
“We think (the government) should tread carefully before they put a lot of people out of work,” Forster told Bullet News during an interview Tuesday.
Fort Erie Mayor Doug Martin is worried about the negative impact on his town. The Fort Erie Race Track is the municipality’s No. 1 employer, and any thought of it being downgraded or closed sends chills through the streets.
READ MORE..
http://www.bulletnewsniagara.ca/2012/02/15/frustrated-fort-erie-mayor-and-welland-mpp-tell-queens-park-not-to-play-games-with-race-track-jobs/
PETERBOROUGH EXAMINER
Peterborough turns into ghost town?
READ MORE..
http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3471976
NATIONAL TURF WRITERS RELEASE VOTERS AND THEIR ECLIPSE VOTES
Okay, someone voted for Rapid Redux andMy Miss Aurelia for Horse of the Year, Drosselmeyer for Turf Horse…look to see:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai_DWSVGWHWxdGRvZ2t5cnVmTGtKem5neFI0eDFFTkE#gid=0
First of all, this is a subsidy and we should be thankful for it, the industry isn’t entitled to this money. OLG financed the installation of the gaming floor at Woodbine and operates it themselves, there is not a single WEG employee involved in the slot facility, except for maybe a security guard in the hallway outside the slots entrance. 10% of the revenue goes to the horsemen, 10% to Woodbine Entertainment. The 10% that is given to Woodbine Entertainment is essentially rent for the use of the space within the grandstand.
Woodbine have not used this money for the betterment of the industry. They have tried several times to move the yearling sale, there is a serious stall shortage but they do not want to support Fort Erie or build a training centre. The training centre would certainly create jobs and make more stalls available for local owners/trainers.
Woodbine have decided this year to cut the purses on the Ontario Sired maiden races to create more, much needed, races. Shouldn’t the open races be the victim of the success of the slot money if the purpose of the subsidy is to grow the local industry?
The creation of Woodbine Live is an egotistical move to become involved in the entertainment business which is a long way from the core business of horse racing, which is what this subsidy was set out to help grow. This development has been at a perpetual standstill. Also, the developer is American, being paid with Ontario tax payer money. Why not use an Ontario developer?
Woodbine pay their executives exorbitant salaries for jobs that are no more difficult than before the slot money came about. They even pay out “Profit Sharing” (their term, not mine) bonuses at the end of the year. These checks are given to seasonal workers, in say customer service right up to the top.
How does a not for profit, run for the betterment of breeding and racing in Ontario pay out profit sharing bonuses?
According to the Financial Post top 500 companies in Canada last year Woodbine made $14M profit. Maybe they should be cut back from their 10% sharing arrangement? But if there must be cut backs, start there, not with the horsemen.
I’m sorry I don’t concur with any number of the statements in “Concerned Canadian’s” comments. I have been involved in a great deal of the negotiations listed above (representing breeders and not racetracks) and believe that some of the opinion above is inaccurate. Now is not the time to snipe at Woodbine. The slots are on site and were put there for a number of reasons and we the horse people are one of the beneficiaries. Outside of the province there are a great many people that think Woodbine is a pillar in the North American racing community. I’m not a shill for WEG and I don’t think they do everything perfectly but they helped mightily in the original slot implementation and could easily have made a deal for themselves and not have stood by a 50/50 partnership with horse people. Glenn Sikura
Dear Glenn,
Which of the comments are inaccurate? I am very interested in your response.
- OLG financing the slots and staffing the slots facility?
- Trying to move the yearling sale? You should know about that…
- Not supporting Fort Erie or building a training centre?
- Cutting the purses on ON Sired maiden races?
- Woodbine Live has not started and is being developed partially with slot funding, and Woodbine are using an American developer? Are there no developers in Ontario capable of a project like this?
- That they pay out profit sharing to their employees? Ask any of them. Are they not a non profit?
- That the Financial Post listed them in the top 500 with a profit of $14M+?
The reason I also will remain anonymous is that I am afraid of the repercussions of speaking my mind. Woodbine are all too powerful and I would like to continue working here.
The effort here is not to “snipe at Woodbine” but they have led us down a road that may now have a dead end, so much more could have been done, but now it may be too late.
Signed,
A Gravely Concerned Ontarian
Since we know each other and are on relatively good terms I think you should just give me a call on my cell phone and discuss your concerns/opinions if you want to. I really don’t want to carry on a dialogue through this forum. Hopefully we can agree to disagree and maintain a respectful relationship. Glenn
Blame stand stands at Claiborne and apparently a verbal cousin its pandering their stuff here in Jenns Blog.
Where there is smoke there is fire and the government see’s smoke. Where in the group of Racino’s/Horsemen it sees it, it’s hard to tell. Woodbine and its horse men/women are not the only game in the Province with Racino’s. I am sure that something is not kosher somewhere otherwise the Ontario Government would not be ranting, Perhaps there are some half truths that we have not seen or heard about. What I despise is the use of negative advertising on the radio by the Liberal Party on Tim Hudack. Let’s leave this type of hate promotion south of the border. We here in Ontario are more hip to being caught up in this form of communication. It lacks class and intellect
Beside all the negative comments posted by a few they have to stop. There is no need by anyone to be slanderous. As a group let’s work together and lay down our differences and work together to make sure that we retain the status of what we have now .Surely we can all understand that there can be improvements made by all concerned
This is call to all to move forward moving forward and in business terms it this means progress, We can only look at it two ways ,either we are the solution or the problem. Either way common sense must prevail. My good pal tried once to poke at an Angry Buffalo only to be gored almost to death, yet a small girl at the farm was able to coax with a grain bucket the massive beast into the trailer without any fuss. Words or Actions made without common sense thinking usually fail.
Dermot
I am an American who lives in a suburb of Buffalo, New York. I go to Fort Erie 2 to 3 times a week during live racing. I love horse racing and don’t care for slot machines. If Fort Erie Race Track closes I will not come to Canada any time soon.
Here is every mention of Horse Racing from the Drummond report.
The OLG provides significant net income to the province while maintaining social responsibility, but efficiencies and other measures could improve the company’s margins. The OLG currently operates two head offices in separate locations; it should close one. It operates two casinos in the Niagara area; it should close one. Slot machines are directed to racetracks, where subsidies are provided to the horse racing and breeding industry and municipalities, rather than locations that would be more convenient and profitable; OLG would make much more money if slots were permitted elsewhere, as they should be. The OLG gives lottery terminals to merchants who sell tickets, an implicit subsidy. This practice too should cease.
The horse racing industry is another area where subsidies to racetracks and horse people require a review and adjustment to realign with present-day economic and fiscal realities. Ontario has more racetracks than any other jurisdiction in the U.S. or Canada. In addition to revenues from wagering, since the late 1990s the industry has benefited from a provincial tax expenditure (a reduction to the provincial pari-mutuel tax) and a percentage of the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation’s gross slot revenues that together are worth an estimated $400 million in 2011–12. Over the past 12 years, approximately $4 billion has flowed through 17 racetracks to support purses, racetrack capital improvement and operating costs. Ontario’s support is 10 times that of British Columbia, which has six racetracks, and 17 times that of Alberta, with five racetracks. Ontario’s approach is unsustainable and it is time for the industry to rationalize its presence in the gaming marketplace. For more on the horse racing and breeding industry, please see Chapter 17, Government Business Enterprises.
Recommendation 11-11: Review and rationalize the current provincial financial support
provided to the horse racing industry so that the industry is more appropriately sustained
by the wagering
• Allow slot machine operations at sites that are not co-located with horse racing venues;
Recommendation 17-4: Re-evaluate, on a value-for-money basis, the practice of providing a portion of net slot revenues to the horse racing and breeding industry and municipalities in order to substantially reduce and better target that support.
Recommendation 11-11: Review and rationalize the current provincial financial support
provided to the horse racing industry so that the industry is more appropriately sustained by the wagering revenues it generates rather than through subsidies or their preferential
treatments.
American Trainers @ Woodbine: Mark Casse (an ENTIRE barn 69 stalls) has won MILLION
S in purse money. That coming directly from hard working Canadian taxpayers while he doesnt contribute a DIME to Canaduan taxes. Two, Steve Asmussen, American from Texas 60 stalls first year won MILLIONS on purse $$ didnt contribute a DIME to Canadian taxes all thus while Canadian trainers & owners being denied stalls!!! and starving while stalls being allocated to American trainers!! Vladimir Cerin and many other American trainers while Canadian trainers watched this all happen!!! Their pleas to Sikura, the HBPA, and executives @ Woodbine were ignored. These were Canadian trainers who supported the Woodbine racetrack when there was the smallest purses in North America. They sacrificed a lot & what did they get in return – nithing. Everybody coming out of the woodwork including new trainers that r training 4 Sikura and others winning races. This is outrageous and we now have the proper forum to address it in and we will!
Dear meownruff,
You obviously have some personal issues that have rattled you, I appreciate your concerns but please take the blinkers off and look at the big picture. Sure we have “American” trainers applying their trade here in Ontario, these same trainers are employing Ontario taxpayers, they are also using the likes of an Ontario feedman, an Ontario Vet…need I continue? These same American trainers working at Woodbine have spent a great deal of money at the Ontario Yearling Sales bringing new to Ontario owners who are paying HST, to which a portion goes to the Province. Like Glen stated, the positions to which members of the executive for the HBPA and CTHS are volunteers who are elected by the majority, the majority of trainers and owners. If you, I or anyone else is not happy with the valuable work these VOLUNTEERS do then, vote them out or even better step up and run. Now is not a time to air dirty laundry but a time to support your peers and Executive, making sure that the horse racing industry here in Ontario is protected. We ALL have one goal here, the survival of the game, the jobs, the history and heritage the racing industry provides.
Dennis
Funny. It wasn’t long ago that Jen was constantly singing Woodbine’s praises and i used to say all the time “just wait until the Govt wises up and decides to keep the slot revenue to theselves”
I was literally laughed off the site. OH OH! hate to say I told you so.
Jen I’m shocked that some of the nonsense that is written makes it to the blog. meownruff, who doesn’t have the courage to put his or her name to this inaccurate, borderline literate musing is really in need of a few facts. First off there is no HBOA that I know of (maybe it’s a cross between the HBPA and HBO the TV network?). Regardless neither my brother nor I are on the board. I do sit on the board of the CTHS and have done so for around 20 years. It is a volunteer board and I don’t receive any money for my involvement. The HBPA is also a volunteer board where no salaries are paid. Glenn Sikura
The reason why I don’t put my name on the comment is because any trainer that does not support the HBPA (it was a typo in previous email) or train TB’s 4 board members is intimidated and harrassed. I have experienced it and so has many others who r signing a petition started to submit 2 the finance minister informing him of the shenanigans going on @ Woodine. More 2 come.
I believe in the end the Government won’t do much of anything with this issue regarding WEG. I can see the smaller tracks suffering, but not WEG – here’s why.
First- the original deal made with WEG wasn’t a “subsidy” — it was a business-sharing plan. If you know the history, many communities were offered slots and all of those communities turned down the opportunity to have them — they didn’t want the “gambling element” there. The community around Woodbine was one of the only ones that agreed slots should come there and the deal is made in such a way that
Woodbine pays for all of the renovations/additions/construction to the slot initiative as the “landlord” – not the OLG — so a lot of the so called “profit” goes to keeping up that facility.
Second – there are 60,000 jobs out there directly related to the horse industry. Considering the liberal government lost so many seats in the last election, do you think they are going to do something that could see them losing that many voters next time around?
Third – There are long-term contracts involved. The government CAN’T do anything regarding this issue until the contracts are up and I thought I read that the OLG re-upped with WEG recently for another 3-4 years with their properties (maybe longer with Woodbine in particular).
Fourth – Woodbine is blowing away any other property OLG owns with the revenue it brings in. Not one other property they own does better than the Woodbine location. If they do anything to jeopardize losing that location they’d be losing a whole lot of money.
These are merely suggestions being made by an economist who simply cares about the dollars and cents and that’s it. The Government on the other hand cares about keeping voters and cares about looking like they are trying to “do good” by everyone.
I’m sure some of the suggestions could come to fruition in some shape or form, but they will be small and unfortunately the smallest tracks/communities are the most likely to suffer.
60,000 jobs is a joke! Where r u statistics 2 back this up? Almost the entire workforce in the stabke area @ Woodbine is immigrants some of them illegal while documents r allegedly forged many r from Jamaica who come here 2 make $$ and then they take it back to Jamaica. Let’s realky get down 2 the truth here.
The internet provides for some interesting reading, especially when it comes to horse racing. For example, the bitter, semi-illiterate rants of meownruff.
Apparently he is the victim of conspiracies from higher ups and bears no responsibility for the lack of success in ones own situation.
He blames his loser situation on Americans (always easy to be Anti-American) or immigrants from Jamaica.
What a small minded person. There is a significant amount of Canadians who choose to race south of the border, especially in the winter. Where is the uproar from Americans, complaining about this invasion?
Here is a suggestion meownruff, to find out what is really the cause of your sad little life, go look in the mirror.
The point is Canadian trainers would be supporting all those jobs just like the American trainers since they have supported the track for years. The only time the Americans come into the pic is when the purse $ is huge. Where were they when the purse money eas small? Second, Canadians do race in the US supporting jobs, but the tracks in the US are not funded by Canadian taxpayer dollars – major difference here – including a 100 million dollar tax break that execs @ Woodbine begged the government for and got. Your smear campaign against me and many others are not going to work. You have been intimidating small trainers/owners for years ruining our lives the time of reckoning is drawing near. Furthermore, the HBPA, Execs, and Sikura have never rallied on behalf of us so we have no intentions of rallying on behalf of your cash cow. Final thought: if all the positions are volunteer them where are these board members getting hundreds of thousands of dollars supporting their race stables while the rest of us are starving? Concerned Canadian way to go by standing up ti these people us small guys will be doing a rally if our own and it wont be supporting the business as usual model @ Woodbine. I guarantee you the moment they cut purses the American trainers will act like Canadian Geese in the fall and “flock off.”
Well said Randy!!!
Re: Meownruff
Seems like u have a thorn in your backside regarding WEG.
60,000 workers are directly and indirectly impacted by racing in Ontario including farmers, truckers, machine/equipment manufacturers, wood/feed mills, educational institutions, publications, tourism, construction just to name a few that dont even go near a track!! All the workers in those occupations and direct racetrack jobs require homes/food/schools/cars/gas etc which in turn stimulates the economy!!!
The last i looked hundreds of CANADIAN horsepeople/horses are currently working in the USA as we speak, many you probably know! Racing is a global sport which shouldnt have boundaries, the punters are the ones who need to be entertained in order to increase wagering. Blasting the American trainers is wrong, they provide jobs to plenty of Canadians and yes immigrants too, and also provide much needed American owners who pay for those salaries and Canadian made products such as feed/hay/straw/blacksmith and vets. illegal immigrants is a bit strong, there are plenty of new govt policies in place to protect the Canadian worker. Sadly, not enough Canadians want to work at the track!!!!
Woodbine has come along way in the last decade to improve the business for the horsepeople. Before you start biting the hand that feeds you take a good look at what has been provided for you…….world class backstretch, lucrative purses and groups such as HBPA, CTHS, OHRIA, OJC and WEG that are working real hard to keep your job in place!!!!
Maybe, you should deflect some of that anger to your local MP via a letter stating how concerned u are about cutbacks to this fabulous industry .
Every single horse person in Ontario better pull themselves together and demonstrate that this critical situation is deeply concerning to us all and we need a strong and UNIFIED voice to ensure we deliver the correct message to the Government of Ontario and the people of the province.
Now is not the time or place to gripe about stalls or Americans or Jamaicans or HBPA Board Members or Glenn Sikura. I am a small owner / breeder and have been for about 15 years. I also started in the industry in 1979 as a hotwalker. I also happen to have had the privilege of being a board member of the CTHS for the last 8 years. I also have horses at WO and never get enough stalls. I also see successful trainers like Attfield and Casse with lots of stalls and fancy horses. Guess what – they are some of the top people in our business and have earned what they have received. I have invested all of my life’s savings into my business and work hard everyday at trying to be successful at it.
WO is not a charity operation and they have developed a World Class Racing operation that everyone wants to be part of. My observation is that if you want to be in the racing business you better be prepared to house 2/3 of your stock off track – AT YOUR EXPENSE and 1/3rd on track – no different than anywhere else in the world. Every man or woman in Ontario with a horse should not somehow assume some “entitlement” at WO or FE just because they have a horse and they live in Ontario. I assure you all these “big boys and girls” are doing that and making considerable investment in Ontario doing so. I concede that those non-residents are not contibuting taxes directly as residents of Ontario do but an economic impact study would surely show that they do make a strong, positive contribution to Ontario. I also believe that we have implemented some strategies to better support our “local” constituents and there is room to improve that further. I believe that WEG, NORDIC, CTHS, HBPA and the ORC accept this challenge and will continue to work on it.
I have sat on the board with Glenn for the last 8 years – I am not his agent or relation but I can tell you that he does NOT get paid by WO or the CTHS and he puts in countless hours for which he should be thanked. I do not agree with many of his views and I primarily represent the “small guy” profile so other than being jealous of the superior class horses he and his family have, I am focused on my business , not his, but insulting and blaming the guy is not merited in any way.
By the way, like all business and life in general, the cards are not always dealt out evenly and this applies as much to horse racing and breeding in Ontario as in anything else we encounter in our daily lives.
The ONLY issue right now is that we must make VERY CLEAR to Minister Duncan and the rest of the politicans that we do NOT receive a SUBSIDY, we benefit in a partnership that also benefits THE PROVINCE of ONTARIO and The city of Toronto and all the cities in ONT that also have tracks and also benefits the track operators. BY FAR the greatest benefactor of the partnership is the province. In rough math, the province “invests” $345M and receives $ 2 Billion in return when all of the contributions of our industry are calculated. I am fasinated by the suggestion of damaging this partnership by the Government. After Ontario was one of the first jurisdictions in the world to develop this world class structure and revive horse racing and breeding in Ontario, it is noteworthy that the States of Pennsylvannina and Louisianna soon followed suit and now have a healthy and sustainable industry. After a 10 year struggle, The State of New York is now potentially the most viable and sustainable jurisdiction in North America. Finally, just as “our” news breaks, the State of Kentucky is going to their people with a partnership plan similar to ours that is intended to repair and rejunevate their signature industry. Surely, any politican that is not severley economically challenged will review this issue with care and easily determine that this partnership is of great positive value to The Province and it’s partners.
Timothy Orlando
Earned what they received you say? So they have earned all the stakks whike blocking Canadian trainers who have NOT earned the stalls – that’s ridiculous. This is a warning to certain individuals (u know who u are). We’ve had several “whistleblowers” come forward with strong evidence which, if played out in court, will bring much more misery then you can possibly imagine and we have government officials willing to listen. Your attitute about giving dtskks to American trainers while you are denied is crazy. You should be on our side now not defending their cash cow.
Wow, okay folks, most of these are super comments, passionate, and I am glad some of you have sent emails to your MPP or Mr. Duncan – I have also received many emails with letters from concerned owners and breeders.
I would rather not get off on a tangent complaining about the HBPA or Woodbine, or whomever.
For now, let’s just make sure horse racing and the farms and everyone involved, continue on – with a healthy future.
The comments are all allowed through my moderator, free speech, but let’s stick to the matter. Thanks!
Good idea let’s stick 2 the matter as long as we dont express a comprehensive view of what’s really been going on. I will continue to address the issues and if you decide to block my comments then we will launch a blog that doesn’t.
Jenn,
Sure wish you would consider posting comments only from those willing to post their names like many of today’s better blogs
Hello Tim,
thank you for you passionate and excellent comments..
I am sorry that you are frustrated with the T’Blog, I do not moderate myself per se, the blog belongs to Horse-Canada.
I still consider Thoroughblog to be among the “better blogs”, however, and until management sees fit to rule out everyone who does not put their real name on, I will continue on. There is certainly an element of fear from some who want to say their piece, no one wants to lose a job in this day and age.
Trust me, I know.
J
Tim. We have a group of folks here who support my comments. Since you are so interested in who we are why dont you tell ys your last name, we will verify your information, and then post our names because you could be anybody.
HI, Tim Orlando is a respected, hard working member of the industry with a stable of horses. let’s keep this civil. Thank you
J
PS – MEOWN – if you read my letter I very clearly signed it at the bottom with my first and last name. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am sure you are just as passionate as I am about your horses and hopefully the long term viability of racing and breeding in Ontario.
People like Sue Leslie and Glenn Sikura and other Industry leaders have a ton on their plate right now and need all the support they can get – NOT personally , just as representatives of our Industry. I have known Glenn and Sue for 20+ years…….I do not agree with all of their thoughts or views and I have heard many times about the “favours” they receive. I will tell you that they put in WAY MORE than they take out, WITHOUT a DOUBT. I do understand the plight of the “little” guy as I have been a struggling one for the last 15 years doing this and am still struggling along. Also, as a member of the CTHS for the last 8 years, I promise you that at every corner I look out for the interests of the little people, often directly challenging the position of Sue or Glenn…. I will welcome an opportunity to meet with your group and discuss your concerns……I can only promise to listen, comment and see that reasonable arguments are heard by the right people….. I can get an audience with WEG, HBPA, CTHS ( Glenn ) as needed to mediate a little with your concerns…….but please understand that we ALL need to try and work together on this for the betterment of every Ontario Bred Horse , Ontario Bred Trainer and Ontario Bred Owner……respectfully, Timothy Orlando
Tim, I’m not one person rather a group of people calling ourselves the Honest Association of Trainers (HAT). Since posting comments on this blog I have received 60+ emails from small owners/trainers who have been shutout of Woodbine 4 many years. I can tell you that the information people have come forward with is very damaging to the very people you mentioned. The evidence is strong, but are allegations until proven in a court of law. This is the very reason why we have not put forth our identities while we are meeting with legal authorities who can protect us if needed. This alleged criminal activity is cross-border. So we have been informed that this alleged international crime falls under the jurisdiction of the FBI and RCMP. We have been told not to reveal our identities during this process. I can also tell you that former stewards, Woodbine personnel from the testing barns, former employees of the HBPA have all come together for our course of action which, I’m afraid are different than yours. The people that strike me the most are the real horse people because hearing their stories are heartbreaking. The ones that supported that track when it was nothing only to be shutout when the purse money went big. Most of them have left the business…. They have no intentions of addressing their concerns with the very people who (in their view) are greedy and self-serving. They want to endure that the funding stops and they don’t care. We will soon be garnishing support from thousands of taxpayers as well. We want to make clear that we are not anti-American. We are pro-Canadian and also joining forces with the Concerned Canadian Taxpayers and when they get hold of the information we have there will be no turning back. … Another thing we never forced anybody to invest their money in this business since all investments are at risk just like when somebody gambles and losses all their money at the wagering window – it’s their own damm fault. Best wishes 4 your future.
Many typos in my post even though it was edited – strange isn’t it? HAT is not anti-American, HAT will ensure that all or a portion of funding is eliminated, HAT is working in conjunction with authorities, HAT is mobilizing with many other groups who will demand that the funding be terminated, HAT never forced anyone to invest their money in horse racing just as Woodbine doesnt force anybody to gamble – so dont blame us for the choices you made.
Seriously GP aka meownruff, if u dont know who Tim Orlando is then u really dont know the backstretch well!!
Well like many other trainers who have been denied stalls there how could we possibly know anybody? Except 4 the trainers that get 40+ stalls year in and year out, get the races written 4 them, and monopolize the racing @ Woodbine as a whole. Further, we dont know who you are either.
MEOWNRUFF – not sure why you do not “expect” an answer. Unlike many on these type of open forum sites, I have no issue publishing my name and being straightforward and transparent.
I am not of any “corporation. I am a sole proprietorship. I own and breed thoroughbreds. I train at WO with my partner Bev Chubb. I have no “Corporate” money behind me, only my own limited resources.
We all have our opinions and clearly you have some reasons to take issue with members of our Industry. If they are just, then I understand your motive to move forward.
I am not a cheering section or backroom spokesperson for ANYONE. I speak for MYSELF only. Further, as a CTHS Board member for 8 years, I accept my responsibilty to look out for and act on behalf of the CTHS membership to the best of my ability. Further, I am a member of the HBPA and a client of WEG as I own horses stabled there and as such have a vested interest in their operations. As previously stated, I get NO preferential treatment and often end up with the short end of the stick however, through perserverence and hard work and a passion for the industry, I continue to pursue my own goals and dreams.
With respect to the PARTNERSHIP we have with The Province, all you have to do is understand economics a little to see it’s enormous upside value not only for horsepeople but also for every citizen of the province. You should also be aware that in Pennsylvannia and Louisiana , similar programs have revived their industries and New York has finally just launched their amazing partnership as well that will lead to NY being the most economically viable jurisdiction in the world. Further, Kentucky is about to put a similar partnership in place to reverse the downhill trend of their signature industry. Plain and simple, partnerships of this type are of huge benefit to Governemnt, ALL tax payers and all Horsepeople. And god bless Ontario for being one of the piononeers of this partnership model.
If you have issues with individuals, pursue them. But I strongly suggest you thoroughly review the economic benefit to all parties prior to speaking against our Partnership with Ontario with respecting to gaming and revenue sharing.
Any change to the current partnership will finanacially hurt the Province of Ontario far more than any of it’s horse racing constituents. It would also clearly be the demise of many of those employed directly or indirectly in Horse Racing, Breeding & Training.
So please review this with your HAT committee and again, I would welcome an opportunity to speak to you / them.
Timothy Orlando
Tim, the bottom line is going to be up to the government and what they decide. You people mobilizing 2 keep the partnership in place and we @ HAT presenting our side which is how a democracy works and I respect your desire to maintain the current partnership in place. Unfortunately, it is difficult to justify hundreds of stalls given to American trainers @ the expense of Canadian taxpayers. We love our American freinds, but we feel that a limit should have been reviewed while Canadian trainers were denied stalls. This issue will be addressed with the watchdog group on taxes and where they are being spent and the Canadian taxpayer has a right to know, as well as, participate in this process. The Ontario Finance Minister will be made aware of everything as well. This is just one issue of many. Unfortunately our research has led us to dark and deep places, but no darker than the trainers who are now working @ McDonalds or similar places due to lack of access to stalls, races, and other things. Back to the stall issue for a moment: there should not be any trainer with more than 20 stalls. They can ship in like the rest of us.
“ME”
Thank you for what I consider to now be a better dialogue firstly. I understand your position a little better now and think there is at least hope for improved, constuctive conversation.
I have NO authority to speak for WEG or FE but I do believe they have a reasonable process for stall allocation. They also have a stall limit although at WO I believe it to be 45 not 20 as you suggest. There can be great discussion as to what the right number is and that is hard to say.
With respect to Mark Casse as an example I am sure he has the maximum alotment but I also believe him to have 45 stalls at WO and another 90 plus stalls off site IN ONTARIO , at his expense, for his additional stock. I also believe WEG will assign stalls based on quantity and quality of stock. Quality meaning horses competitive at WO racing levels. I also believe the HBPA worked with WEG in reducing the number of stalls per trainer to accomodate more people. You may argue that 45 is too many and again , that is up for discussion. I hope you also concede that while Mr Casse does not pay tax directly in Ontario, that his financial contribution to the province is significant. I. like you and others get less stalls as a result of Casse and other non residents getting stalls however we all have to realize that WEG is in the business of providing outstanding racing opportunities and as a result we have the only jurisdiction at the moment ( NY soon to blow by us I think ) where wagering and investment in racing is GROWING.
Surely we all want to see racing continue to grow and flourish and the non residents are making a significant contribution. ( NOTE I am born and raised in Ontario and not a lobbyist for non residents ). I also think the support of non residents is a significant factor in feeping FE going as there are not enough locals to fill the stalls or fill the races.
I appreciate your passion and encourage you to continue your constructive debate. My sense is that you care about Ontario Racing as much as I do though we may have different views on how to accomplish everything.
Tim
Absolutely. As we see it, one of the main issues is: lack of access to the system resulting in the best “connections” winning races and not the best horse. Their stall committee is biased, self-serving, greedy, and anything but fair. When you look @ the statistics it has nothing to do with the outstanding ability if a trainer and horse, but everything to do with the board members. How many Northern Dancers have been lost @ the hands of these people making decisions. In irder to make it equitable and fair all trainers shoukd have only 20 stalls with smaller outfits getting a chance to make a living. It goes beyond that with the allegations that have been submitted to our email address. We maintain our position and we have already gone forward including preliminary discussions with government officials. …
Bulletin: if you are a previous or current owner or trainer and would like to join our coalition please email meownruff@hotmail.com. We want to hear from you. Many owners and trainers have contacted us and support our position. If you have been denied stalls, if you have credibility issues with the current stall committee that have been in place denying stalls please contact us – we want to hear from you.
Jen, Our comments are being blocked so much for fair representation and freedom of speech. Our group has started our own blog. The most frightening aspect of your magazine blocking our comments is that we are on the right track and even a magazine is under their direction and control – how frightening!
HI MeowNRuff
I have sent you countless emails about your group to get some info on it but no one has responded, until someone does, I need to hold off right now – slanderous remarks about individuals is not helping me personally, the magazine, the industry.
Please repond to one of my 5 emails and then we can discuss!
J
They are assuming you are G. P. because a google search of your email address brings it up as belonging to a Gina Powell, a Fort Erie resident, that does equine massage.
If you are not this person, perhaps you should change your email address so the innocent party doesn’t get vilified!